Posts by Juan Viejo2

112

If the bible is god's handbook for man, why is it such gobbledegook?

by Aussie Oz in

i don't mean the basic moral code of behavior (that many non biblical lands also just happen to have) that people use to model their lives, but the 'deeper' stuff.... assuming that god has had his divine plan for vindicating himself etc ever since he figured that adam may screw up, and he needed to let faithful mankind know the 'plan' and how to survive it all.... why is the important stuff all gobbledegook?.

the time frame, prophecy, signs and so on are all so obscure that even the cleverest theologians can't understand it or agree on it.

the 'truth' is so muddled and juggled up that every understanding can be logically challenged with an equally challengable one.

Juan Viejo2

Where the logic fails can be described by this illustratrion:

Moses delivered the Ten Commandments and then the Law - which over centuries expanded into the Torah and all of the Hebrew writings.

By the time of Christ - Scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes and others tried to interpret and enforce those laws. None agreed, especially on details. No one could follow the law perfectly.

Jesus sits down with his followers and simplifies everything:

"Look brothers, it's not that hard. Just remember to 'love God with your whole heart and soul - you do all love God, don't you? And love your neighbor the same as you would your own family and yourself. Do those two things perfectly and you will be following the intent of the law."

Does it then make any sense that he would leave behind a mish-mash of gobbledeegook like Revelation for his followers to try and figure out? Would it make sense for him to inspire Paul to preach to the Gentiles and spread the word to all nations, and then have a "governing body" fight him tooth and nail over Law related issues like circumcision, eating of blood, etc.?

I'm sure that Jesus message was a simple and straight-forward one. His uninspired followers, especially those who did not ever know him, are the ones that made everything so damn complicated.

44

JW Home study

by wiser in

jw
friends

can anyone tell me how long the jw homestudy lasts.

we are already going on a year and a half, and thank god i have not been converted yet.

i am sick of hearing their version of the bible.

Juan Viejo2

Debator,

I hope you are turning in the hours you are spending here trying to support the unsupportable and make sense of the Watchtower nonsense for the rest of us infidels.

Keep it up and in a couple of weeks you will qualify as a special pioneer. Can we send a letter to your congregation and recommend you for the next PO or MS position?

88

Was God over reacting destroying the whole planet in Noah's flood to kill afew evil people...too bad Noah forgot the Unicorns and Dinosaurs according to the Watchtower!

by Witness 007 in

yes instead of striking them dead he decided to flood the entire planet killing every living plant and animal {sorry peta members} which only afew years before he created declaring it "good.

" then he made a "rainbow" as a sign that never again will he destroy every living thing.. wasn't this over the top?.

too bad they forgot the poor unicorns and dinosuars though!.

Juan Viejo2

According to "Studies in the Scriptures - The Finished Mystery" Leviathan was a choo-choo running between Pittsburgh and Brooklyn.

Maybe the "unicorn" represents the pinheads that run the Watchtower Society.

44

JW Home study

by wiser in

jw
friends

can anyone tell me how long the jw homestudy lasts.

we are already going on a year and a half, and thank god i have not been converted yet.

i am sick of hearing their version of the bible.

Juan Viejo2

Blondie quoted:

*** w60 1/15 p. 55 This Is a Time of Judgment ***Parents who reject the good news of the Kingdom and who ignore the good principles and wonderful purposes of Jehovah God cannot expect their minor children to survive the execution of divine judgment. Until a child reaches the age where it can be held responsible for its actions, it is under family responsibility. Divine punishment or blessing that comes to its parents automatically falls upon it. This principle is seen at Ezekiel 9:6, where God’s command was to “slay utterly the old man, the young man and the virgin, and little children and women; but come not near any man upon whom is the mark.”—

This was precisely the approach that the Hollywood, CA congregation took with my wife (who was still active in 1968-70) to try to force me to come back into the Borg. They told her that if I did not repent (I was DFd at the time) and start coming back to the KH, that no matter what she did (because she was still supposed to be submissive to me as her husband) my three little girls would all be destroyed at Armageddon when it came in 1975.

That terrified her so much that our marriage began to crumble quickly. She told me exactly what the elders at the KH had said - and begged me to reconsider my refusal to ever return to being a JW again. "You don't want our girls to be destroyed at Armageddon, do you?" she'd plead.

For an ever so brief moment I considered going back just to bring peace to our family and to return our marriage to normalcy. But then I thought about my three girls being raised as JWs and not having normal lives - and my senses returned to me.

I put my foot down. While I agreed that she could take the girls to the KH and book study, I insisted that she not try to force the religion on them - not take them in service, or to conventions. I made it clear that I would not let them become baptized until they were clearly old enough to make that decision for themselves - like at 18 or older.

Although I lost the battle and our marriage continued to crumble and ended in divorce in 1970, I won the war. My ex-wife eventually left the JWs during that decade and after a brief period of being a Peace & Freedom hippie, she took up smoking and returned to the Catholic Church. My daughters were all raised outside of religion and barely remember any of the events of that time. None became JWs and all are uncomfortable even bringing the subject up. Only one of my daughters and her children have been baptized - as Catholics. The other two don't have any real interest or the time for religion.

We all won that battle eventually, even my ex-wife - but the above paragraph is exactly what fired the first shot.

44

JW Home study

by wiser in

jw
friends

can anyone tell me how long the jw homestudy lasts.

we are already going on a year and a half, and thank god i have not been converted yet.

i am sick of hearing their version of the bible.

Juan Viejo2

I think it was during the 1968-1975 period when the WT started pushing the six-month guideline. They wanted to push all the newbies into making a commitment quickly. I remember that they had some rather unique approaches to getting those commitments, but the strongest was, "I don't know how long I can continue to study with you. The time is so short before Armageddon and I have to focus on those who really want to survive and be a part of Jehovah's New World organization."

I think this dropped off a bit after the early 1980s, but it was made clear that anyone who seemed to have "apostate" leanings - or asked too many questions - should be dropped rather quickly. Maybe it was also because the Governing Body did not want the R&F to get involved in too many "real" Bible studies where probing questions might come up, especially any that had to do with the failure of 1975. They had been through that during the 1979-1982 period with disastrous results.

Bible studies have always been important for "special pioneers" and brothers hoping to achieve elder and MS status within a congregation. It always looked good to have more than the minimum hours, plenty of literature placements, and at least one Bible study to report each month. That was supposed to show the KH leadership that a brother had commitment and teaching skills - and was an "effective publisher."

I'm not sure what the story is now - but my guess is that policies for length of Bible studies will be in constant flux over the next few years. There will be pressure to report plenty of new potential converts, but at the same time that will be balanced by a desire to have new ones "s*** or get off the pot," so to speak. I'm also sure that anyone in a longterm Bible study who puts up any challenges or asks any probing questions will be dropped quickly.

7

The most widely read magazine in the world

by XPeterX in

check this out: http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/thesearch/archive/2010/05/27/what-is-the-most-widely-read-magazine-in-world.aspx.

Juan Viejo2

"Every month, nearly 40 million copies of The Watchtower are printed in more than 180 languages and sent to 236 countries. There are no subscriptions and you won’t find it on newsstands, but it’s still hard to miss. Thanks to the efforts of Witnesses ... The Watchtower is the most widely distributed magazine in the world, with a circulation of more than 25 million. Last year, the world’s 7.3 million-strong Jehovah’s Witnesses spent 1.5 billion hours knocking on doors and “street Witnessing”

You are all absolutely right. I doubt if one out of twenty of the WT and Aw! magazines is actually ever opened and read. Several non-JW friends of mine have told me that they would accept the magazines at the door - just so they wouldn't hurt the poor JWs' feelings - and then immediately walk over to the kitchen and put them in with the coffee grounds. Others have told me that they will add them to their stack of other unread magazines like the Auto Club and Costco monthlies, and then toss them out unread before some friends drop by.

Think of the thousands of magazines that are left on tables at restaurants, laundromats, doctors waiting rooms, and bus stations that are simply picked up and tossed in the trash the next time a janitor passes through the area. One friend of mine who worked as a waitress at Denny's Restaurant told me that on a normal shift they may have 6-10 magazines left on the tables sitting under the tip money. Sometimes the magazines were the tip!

No, I think there are dozens of other news and feature magazines that have more readers than the WT and Aw! could ever hope to have.

116

2nd video on 1919 Watchtower's Wacky Chronology

by Awakened at Gilead in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfrz4bepvye.

.

i had some time to put this together... let me know what you think... .

Juan Viejo2

"Jehovah thru jesus appointed a faithful slave class where a central governing body emerged. That? group that took the lead in managing the sheep in their care and was simply POINTING to these dates as markers in time so as to point out where prominent events would happen. There is no need for 1919 to have any Biblical mention or 1914. In fact Revelation mentions no dates and JWs use the dates for what they are MEANT to be used for mainly to point out some significant event. .. :)"

AaG, that was almost exactly word for word what one of my relatives told me a few years ago. There must have been a TMS training program on how to handle questions about dates and prophecies. It's amazing how some of the JWs seem to be able to parrot certain statements as if they had been brainwashed like Malcolm McDowell in "Clockwork Orange." I wonder if they will blink if you pass your hand across their face when they say something like this.

It seems that they don't understand that they have been taught to lie, not only to others, but also to themselves. How does one turn off the inborn impulses that occur when someone tells an obvious lie?

I'd love to see the TV program on Fox, "Lie to Me," have an episode where a couple of JWs come to Tim Roth's home and try to pull this bullcrap on him. Might make for interesting viewing for once...

13

If I become a JW will I have to go door to door?

by Darth plaugeis in

of course not.

no one forces you to do that, it's totally your decision.. lol remember that!

!.

Juan Viejo2

At my advanced age, if I were to go back in I'd go for broke, knowing what I know now:

I'd turn in 20-35 hours a month, whether I actually did those number of hours or not.

I'd actually go door to door once in a while and try to have adult conversations with people interested in being JWs, but I'd let them talk themselves out of it after I told them what it was really like being a JW.

At the Kingdom Hall, I'd be very humble in a very haughty and superior manner.

I'd volunteer for any leadership or service position to get myself nominated as a elder as soon as possible.

With what I know now, I'm sure that I could fake being a "more dedicated JW" - certainly deserving of an overseer position.

I can give a decent speech when I have to - even on an impromptu basis. I'm sure that I could handle any assigned public talks.

After a couple of years, I'd partake of the emblems, so everyone would think that I was "anointed." This would most certainly put me in position for a position of some authority within a couple of years.

At times I would be exceptionally loving and understanding - and friendly to the elders and their wives. But I'd tend to be stern with the younger and newer members of the congregation.

If you know how to play the game - you can fool almost anyone. After all, that's what 90% of the elders and overseers are doing now. Who knows, at my age and being one of the "anointed" - I might even get appointed to the GB sometime before I die.

4

I just paged through the "keep on the watch" mag. at girlfriends.

by outlander in

jw
friends

i was hanging out at my girlfriends when some witnesses came to the door and offered her the " keep on the watch" magazine.

i had never seen it before and have to say it is one of the most refined pieces of scare tactics iv'e ever seen in my life.

it's like a piece of artwork on deception and hidden meanings.

Juan Viejo2

Scan it and share it with the rest of us.

4

I just paged through the "keep on the watch" mag. at girlfriends.

by outlander in

jw
friends

i was hanging out at my girlfriends when some witnesses came to the door and offered her the " keep on the watch" magazine.

i had never seen it before and have to say it is one of the most refined pieces of scare tactics iv'e ever seen in my life.

it's like a piece of artwork on deception and hidden meanings.

Juan Viejo2

Scan it and share it with the rest of us.